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	<title>Comments on: The Mito Hollyhock Soccer Team Incorrectly Named! (TsukuBlog Exclusive)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.alientimes.org/2008/07/the-mito-hollyhock-soccer-team-incorrectly-named-tsukublog-exclusive/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.alientimes.org/2008/07/the-mito-hollyhock-soccer-team-incorrectly-named-tsukublog-exclusive/</link>
	<description>A Local Perspective on Life in Tsukuba, Ibaraki, Japan.</description>
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		<title>By: Avi</title>
		<link>http://blog.alientimes.org/2008/07/the-mito-hollyhock-soccer-team-incorrectly-named-tsukublog-exclusive/comment-page-1/#comment-20241</link>
		<dc:creator>Avi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 13:24:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.alientimes.org/?p=926#comment-20241</guid>
		<description>Sorry for ragging on your team. I just wanted to point out certain problems in translating plant names which seems to have originated in the aesthetic whims of certain famous scholars. I could have just as well called that article &quot;Ancient Kyoto Festival (Aoi Matsuri) misnamed in English guidebooks&quot; (Hollyhock Festival). I think it could lead to problems for those interested in flowers as they would think that hollyhock was actually used in that festival. I will make sure to catch a game (or maybe even more), as I do like Mito, am starting to like soccer, and love TACHI-AOI. Cheers</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry for ragging on your team. I just wanted to point out certain problems in translating plant names which seems to have originated in the aesthetic whims of certain famous scholars. I could have just as well called that article &#8220;Ancient Kyoto Festival (Aoi Matsuri) misnamed in English guidebooks&#8221; (Hollyhock Festival). I think it could lead to problems for those interested in flowers as they would think that hollyhock was actually used in that festival. I will make sure to catch a game (or maybe even more), as I do like Mito, am starting to like soccer, and love TACHI-AOI. Cheers</p>
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		<title>By: Vendo Thefastlane</title>
		<link>http://blog.alientimes.org/2008/07/the-mito-hollyhock-soccer-team-incorrectly-named-tsukublog-exclusive/comment-page-1/#comment-20087</link>
		<dc:creator>Vendo Thefastlane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 06:06:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.alientimes.org/?p=926#comment-20087</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m afraid that while you are correct, the idea that the team was incorrectly named more than 10 years ago is not quite true. Every fan knows that the word &quot;hollyhock&quot; means tachi aoi. Whether the people understand the difference is a different story though. I, for one, would never know the difference between hollyhock or any number of flowers if I had no connection to the team because I don&#039;t dig flowers.

The logo happens to contain the Tokugawa seal but any source claiming that hollyhock refers to that seal is a bit of conjecture. The team just wanted an English name and decided to go with an aoi flower, as you stated... It just happened to be a conscious decision rather than a mistake. In more recent history, the cheerleading team was named the &quot;Holy&#039;s&quot; even as I objected in the planning stages, promoting the term &quot;Hollies&quot; instead. The name has continued to be &quot;Holy&#039;s&quot; because the higher ups just like the way it looks written that way.

Besides, the team would have to have its name approved for appropriateness by the Japan Soccer League, then later the Japan Football League, and finally the J. League. In all cases, it was known to be a translation of &quot;tachi aoi&quot;.

Anyway, I&#039;m happy that the team got your attention in any case. I hope sometime you make the short drive up to Mito and enjoy a match, or catch a game on SkyPerfecTV. They&#039;re a lot of fun. :)

http://www.mito-hollyhock.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m afraid that while you are correct, the idea that the team was incorrectly named more than 10 years ago is not quite true. Every fan knows that the word &#8220;hollyhock&#8221; means tachi aoi. Whether the people understand the difference is a different story though. I, for one, would never know the difference between hollyhock or any number of flowers if I had no connection to the team because I don&#8217;t dig flowers.</p>
<p>The logo happens to contain the Tokugawa seal but any source claiming that hollyhock refers to that seal is a bit of conjecture. The team just wanted an English name and decided to go with an aoi flower, as you stated&#8230; It just happened to be a conscious decision rather than a mistake. In more recent history, the cheerleading team was named the &#8220;Holy&#8217;s&#8221; even as I objected in the planning stages, promoting the term &#8220;Hollies&#8221; instead. The name has continued to be &#8220;Holy&#8217;s&#8221; because the higher ups just like the way it looks written that way.</p>
<p>Besides, the team would have to have its name approved for appropriateness by the Japan Soccer League, then later the Japan Football League, and finally the J. League. In all cases, it was known to be a translation of &#8220;tachi aoi&#8221;.</p>
<p>Anyway, I&#8217;m happy that the team got your attention in any case. I hope sometime you make the short drive up to Mito and enjoy a match, or catch a game on SkyPerfecTV. They&#8217;re a lot of fun. :)</p>
<p><a href="http://www.mito-hollyhock.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.mito-hollyhock.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Avi</title>
		<link>http://blog.alientimes.org/2008/07/the-mito-hollyhock-soccer-team-incorrectly-named-tsukublog-exclusive/comment-page-1/#comment-19288</link>
		<dc:creator>Avi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 05:55:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.alientimes.org/?p=926#comment-19288</guid>
		<description>The day after I made this posting I chanced upon what might be the actual source (or very near it) of the misuse of the English flower name hollyhock as used to represent futaba-aoi leaves used in the Aoi Matsuri Festival and in the crest of the Mito Tokugawa. I had a few minutes to spare before heading out for the day and I settled in a chair and browsed the books nearest to me.

There was Ivan Morris&#039; translation of the Makura no soshi (枕草子) in the Columbia University edition. Leafing through the text, I found Chapter 17, with the heading &quot;Things That Arouse A Fine Memory Of the Past&quot; on page 51. The first item listed was dried hollyhock. There it was. But could anyone understand this translation? I hurriedly looked for my Japanese version and found that the original text read &quot;kareta aoi&quot;, something quite different, even if the aoi referred to were hollyhock. 

Morris&#039; translation implies something purposely dried, for medicine, or as an ingredient for food. What Sei Shonagon is referring to however is the discovery of the aoi leaves of some past festival which had been stashed away in somewhere as a keepsake and are discovered all dried out and withered bringing back memories of festivals past.

Morris actually made a footnote for his hollyhock translation on page 284 which reads from the sixth line: I am grateful to professor Cranston for pointing out (Harvard Journal Of Asiatic Studies vol.xxix p. 260) that the aoi used in the Kamo Festival is not althea rosa (hollyhock) but asarum caulescens, which is a form of snake weed or bistort with paired, flesh-colored flowers. A more accurate translation of Aoi Matsuri would therefore be Bistort Festival, BUT I TRUST BOTANISTS WILL NOT BE OFFENDED IF I CALL IT HOLLYHOCK FESTIVAL (emphasis mine)!

One of the legends of Japanese-English translation, can thus be found guilty in my opinion of being flippant about the simple naming of things. I guess he felt that hollyhock sounded nice. But since that actual flower (tachi aoi) is so common Morris&#039; legacy in this case can lead to embarrassing mistakes, such as hearing that the roadside flowers are hollyhock and then saying &quot;Oh,those are the flowers used in the Aoi Matsuri&quot;, or &quot;That is the symbol of the Tokugawa Family!&quot;

I am a great admirer of Morris&#039; work, but in this case I think he was WRONG. Let&#039;s be more careful, everyone, and verify the plants and animals we are translating!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The day after I made this posting I chanced upon what might be the actual source (or very near it) of the misuse of the English flower name hollyhock as used to represent futaba-aoi leaves used in the Aoi Matsuri Festival and in the crest of the Mito Tokugawa. I had a few minutes to spare before heading out for the day and I settled in a chair and browsed the books nearest to me.</p>
<p>There was Ivan Morris&#8217; translation of the Makura no soshi (枕草子) in the Columbia University edition. Leafing through the text, I found Chapter 17, with the heading &#8220;Things That Arouse A Fine Memory Of the Past&#8221; on page 51. The first item listed was dried hollyhock. There it was. But could anyone understand this translation? I hurriedly looked for my Japanese version and found that the original text read &#8220;kareta aoi&#8221;, something quite different, even if the aoi referred to were hollyhock. </p>
<p>Morris&#8217; translation implies something purposely dried, for medicine, or as an ingredient for food. What Sei Shonagon is referring to however is the discovery of the aoi leaves of some past festival which had been stashed away in somewhere as a keepsake and are discovered all dried out and withered bringing back memories of festivals past.</p>
<p>Morris actually made a footnote for his hollyhock translation on page 284 which reads from the sixth line: I am grateful to professor Cranston for pointing out (Harvard Journal Of Asiatic Studies vol.xxix p. 260) that the aoi used in the Kamo Festival is not althea rosa (hollyhock) but asarum caulescens, which is a form of snake weed or bistort with paired, flesh-colored flowers. A more accurate translation of Aoi Matsuri would therefore be Bistort Festival, BUT I TRUST BOTANISTS WILL NOT BE OFFENDED IF I CALL IT HOLLYHOCK FESTIVAL (emphasis mine)!</p>
<p>One of the legends of Japanese-English translation, can thus be found guilty in my opinion of being flippant about the simple naming of things. I guess he felt that hollyhock sounded nice. But since that actual flower (tachi aoi) is so common Morris&#8217; legacy in this case can lead to embarrassing mistakes, such as hearing that the roadside flowers are hollyhock and then saying &#8220;Oh,those are the flowers used in the Aoi Matsuri&#8221;, or &#8220;That is the symbol of the Tokugawa Family!&#8221;</p>
<p>I am a great admirer of Morris&#8217; work, but in this case I think he was WRONG. Let&#8217;s be more careful, everyone, and verify the plants and animals we are translating!</p>
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